SPEAKER_01 0:30

All right, here we are. What's up, dude? How you doing, man? How's it going? Good. Streaming this to my channel too, just so you know. Absolutely. Yeah, of course. So um uh Jason Arnes is uh not feeling well. He was not able to come on. Um, you've come on with Jay before on Anabolic Academy. So uh I just want to say uh uh I want to I want to give you uh a great compliment, man. Uh since the first time you've been on my channel, um, you've always come on every time I asked. It means a lot to me. I appreciate it, man. It really does mean a lot to me because I mean your channel's bigger than mine, but I'm sure you've when you first started, you faced the same thing. Where it's it's hard getting guys on when you're a smaller podcast, you know? So the guys that like are are become a friend to me and a friend to the show, I appreciate greatly. So thank you for coming on and and doing me this favor, man. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 1:30

I'm just a bodybuilding nerd, just like you, man. I love talking shop. That's for sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:35

That's what I do all day. Yeah, tell me about it. I know, I know. It's unbelievable. But we were talking that you went to Detroit and uh you said Fuad puts on a great production.

SPEAKER_00 1:43

Oh my god, what a great show! I I everybody should know if you're if you're in the that area, that that's one of the best um smaller IFBB shows that I've been to. I mean, it's just fantastic. That in the Tampa, Tampa's well done too. But you know, it's a bigger production. But man, what support Fuad and what he's doing up there. I mean, I think they're with the with the lighting, the black backdrop, and they make it about the athletes and the audience. It's the way a show should be done.

SPEAKER_01 2:12

Yeah, I that when I did my wrap-up, uh, of course I concentrated on the athletes and the outcome, but I also gave him I gave Fouad his just due, and I said the good part about it is he puts on a tremendous production. The live stream is flawless, the backdrop is flawless, the entertainment part is flawless between um when he does the the king of Detroit. Um that is really good uh for bodybuilding. And more, more I think more promoters should take a page out of his book instead of just worrying about how much money am I gonna make. Because if you put on a good show, people are gonna come. And you said it was a sold-out crowd, right?

SPEAKER_00 2:50

Yeah, it was packed crowd. And you know, I've run businesses my whole life, and that that's always been kind of my my thing, man, is is like don't worry about the money. I'm not saying you shouldn't try to make money as a business, you definitely need to to be viable. But if you put a good product and a good service out, focus on that and and and and the business will come. And I and I think that's what he's doing there. It's just you you you put a good product out and and people people will support it.

SPEAKER_01 3:19

100%. And then and you know, that's kind of what he's famous for. His uh his product line, his sponsorships, his clothing line. It's all quality stuff. You know, you could say what you want about him, you don't like him, whatever the case may be. I mean, so on so far. I've had issues, not issues, but I've invited him on. I I mean, I think I've I've invited him on like three or four times, and he's never come on. All right, fine. But I've had Paul on, his friend, who's a great guy. You know, uh, I had Guy Sistanino on um when it was when he was on his show all the time. So uh, but that being said, you can't take away what he does for bodybuilding in that Detroit Pro. He puts on an excellent show. So kudos to to Fuad. So this is Anabolic Academy. Obviously, this is going to be brought to you by IPR Subs, which is uh we know it's Jason Hodge's line. The link is in the sub in the description, and the discount code SNS10 is also in the description. Go and check it out. He's also got uh apparel, clothing apparel, hats, shirts, and he has great products. So go check it out. All right. Big Paul is gonna help me today. And actually, a lot of times I pick a topic on Anabolic Academy that I'm not too good at. So I want to talk about pre the best pre-workout meal and the best post-workout meal for obviously off-season and on season. So my take on it, let's start with pre pre-uh workout meals. My take on it was I would basically have a decent meal, you know, protein, uh, carbohydrates, greens, but I never like to be full. I would try to, I would try to take it at me at least an hour before I trained. Because I never liked that full, full feeling. It kind of got in the way, especially when I would do things like, you know, bent over rows or deadlifts, and when you're really pushing down on the stomach when you're squatting, it's it really comes up. So I try to make it like at least 45 minutes to an hour before, so it's slightly digested by that point, and I get a good workout, and I don't feel like I'm gonna puke. But so is that accurate? And what exactly should a solid pre-workout meal include?

SPEAKER_00 5:48

Well, are we using insulin or no insulin? That changes the equation.

SPEAKER_01 5:52

Yeah, okay. Let's that's actually a really good point. Let's go with no insulin, and then we'll we'll do we'll just then we'll go into insulin.

SPEAKER_00 5:59

Um, so with the no insulin scenario, I like to use a combination of simple and complex carbohydrates so we we can spike our own um insulin, right? Um, so I like to do for me, I I find some sort of rice-based carbohydrate tolerant is well tolerated. I keep the fats low pre pre-workout, um fat slow post-workouts so the food digests a little bit quicker.

SPEAKER_01 6:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:28

I I like, I mean, I sometimes I'll run insulin, sometimes I won't. It just depends. But if I'm not running insulin, man, probably my favorite thing I like to do, it's real simple. I like to eat chicken breast.

SPEAKER_02 6:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:42

Um, uh sometimes I'll do a protein shake if I want to keep it lighter. Although protein shakes tend to bother my stomach more than food. Than than food does. They they tend to bloat me up more. I and I'll do a combination of rice and then some I'll do some orange juice with creatine and um glutamine in it as part of my pre-workout. Drink sometimes I'll have a banana. If I'm doing insulin, I'll take a banana because we want to get some potassium in with it as well. But it really just depends on what I'm doing. But I I like just keeping it simple rice, orange juice, and um chicken breasts. It's real simple. Something super simple like that. With and that's that's typically how I'll do it. If I'm gonna do a pre-workout, I'll mix a little bit of the pre-workout in with the orange juice. I'll I'll dilute it with water, I'll do half water. Uh, but that way, you know, we have some simple carbohydrates in that are gonna cause an insulin spike with our body. If you use a glucose meter, you can see it. Your blood sugar will rise rapidly and come back down. And then I use an intra-workout shake as I'm as I'm during that workout window because we're gonna have increased GLUT4 transport, which is going to mean more glucose uptate during the workout.

SPEAKER_01 7:55

Okay. Uh, so a couple of questions. Um, why no fats before a workout?

SPEAKER_00 8:06

Um, it's you know, you can do it both ways. Um, you can add a little bit of fat in, but primarily the thought here is if we're going high carbohydrate, uh, we don't want to mix high fats and high carbohydrates in the meal. I I look at it as like a sliding scale. If we want to go higher carbohydrates, we need to pull the fats down. If we're going to go lower carbohydrates, we push the fats up a little bit. The problem is, is when you push the carbs really high and you're in a caloric surplus, you can get in a situation where your body will store that body fat. Now, sometimes I have some people that have problems with going hypo during their workout. Some guys will get a little hypo. In that situation, I might put a little bit of nut butter or something in with the pre-workout meal to slow down the digestion a bit. And another thing is fats just sit heavy in your stomach when you're when you're, you know. And we, in my mind, I want that rapid hit of carbohydrates so we do get an insulin spike. Uh, I like to keep things a little bit lighter. I want things that digest easily. I honestly white fish digest even easier than um chicken if you wanted something that's really light pre-workout. Sometimes I'll even do cereal, uh rice checks or something like that. I'll do. Yep.

unknown 9:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:26

Now, what do you mean by some guys get hypo?

SPEAKER_00 9:29

There's some dudes that blood sugar will get low intra workout where they bottom out an intra workout shake with some carbohydrates in it should help alleviate some of that. But uh sometimes I'll put just, you know, like I used to get once in a while, we'd get hypo during my my workout. And so I would just put a little bit of almond butter in with I'd do cream of rice with a little bit of almond butter in it.

SPEAKER_01 9:54

Okay, okay. So for somebody who is a beginner and intermediate lifter, basically what you're saying is a fast breakdown protein, like maybe a white fish, um uh rice. I'm assuming you mean white rice?

SPEAKER_00 10:08

White rice, yeah, jasmine rice or cream of rice, either one.

SPEAKER_01 10:12

Okay, and then you do some kind of uh simple sugar like orange juice.

SPEAKER_00 10:16

Yep, simple sugar, orange juice, banana, even jam, something like that. Okay, all right.

SPEAKER_01 10:23

Um now uh the intra, the intra uh shake, is that only carbohydrates, or are you talking branch chains as well?

SPEAKER_00 10:38

I put essential amino acids in it, so I have some leucine in there, which you know I don't know how much of a difference it makes. It's one of those things, it's the one percenter. If you have your diet completely buttoned up, you're a guy that's doing everything, dotting all your I's, crossing all your T's, and you're you're extremely detailed with everything, then having a little bit of essential amino acids, something some leucine in it, intro workout might provide a little bit extra benefit long term as far as increasing mTOR and all that downstream effect.

SPEAKER_01 11:13

And the fast-acting carbohydrate, I'm assuming you mean something like a carbolin, not like a dextrose.

SPEAKER_00 11:18

During the during the workout, we want something that's going to sit a little easier on the stomach. I any kind of highly branched dex dextrin, so something like HBCD, the carbolin would be another one, something that's going to be a slower digesting uh uh carbohydrate. The the problem with dextrose is dextrose can cause rapid gastric thing. Basically, you get the bubble guts, you shit your pants. Yeah, I don't want that. Right, right. So the the highly branched cyclic dextrin or the all these these high molecular weight um carbohydrates that you hear about, like HBCD or carbon. Basically, what it is you have these molecules that have all of these dextrose they they have little pieces of of dextrose attached to them and they get plucked off uh slowly while you're working out. So you sipping on a drink would essentially do the same thing. Um, but that what what that does is allow that to make it down to your your uh small intestine, and so you don't get all the uh gastric high gastric emptying, basically shit your pants.

SPEAKER_01 12:27

Yeah, I don't need any more of that. I'm already borderline.

SPEAKER_00 12:31

The the old the old school guys that used to drink the dextrose shakes, you know what I'm talking about, where you'd be running to the bathroom mid-workout to shit yourself. Yeah. Um, because it pulls all the fluid into your colon. Um, so these these highly branched uh carbohydrates, these high molecular weight carbohydrates uh eliminate some of that. Um sometimes, dude, like if I'm in a pinch, I'll just get grab a Gatorade and sip on it while I'm while I'm working out.

SPEAKER_01 12:55

Okay, okay. Now, now let's let's I got a couple of questions. But now you let's say you're using insulin. So you're in it now, you're an advanced lifter, you're a competitive lifter, maybe you're a national level, pro level, and now you're using an insulin protocol. So then what would your pre-workout meal be?

SPEAKER_00 13:16

Same stuff, just more carbs.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

Just in just increase the carbohydrates.

SPEAKER_00 13:21

Yeah, and that's the thing where guys get wrong with insulin, is they they they think more is better with insulin, and that's not the case. You you you match your your insulin to your carbohydrate intake, and you have to keep in mind I I know like the old school recommendation that you hear people talking about was one unit of insulin per 10 grams of carbs, but that's what diabetics do, right? Okay, we're we're not diabetics, and you're also going to be lifting, and so like you start. I don't want to tell people doses specifically, but you want to start very conservative with insulin doses. But I like the same deal, some combination of simple carbohydrates and then something to keep things sustained. And the idea is here is that you're going to increase um the glute 4 transport that's going to be happening anyway during the workout, and you can shut basically shove more glucose into your into your cells, glucose, amino acids, all these other things into you. Then it becomes probably more critical to have the when when I hear guys doing a shit ton of carbs intra workout with the amino acids, that's code for I'm using insulin.

SPEAKER_01 14:24

Ah, I see. Okay. Now the insulin you use during that time is that is it a fast-acting or the intermediate acting?

SPEAKER_00 14:30

Oh, no, no, you want to, yeah, rap rapid is the only one that makes sense to me.

SPEAKER_01 14:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 14:34

That's another thing that people get confused with the insulin. There's you know, people will be using something like lantis or basal insulin, um, which is going to have really no uh no effect on on mealtime um you know glucose disposal during during meals, it's not really going to have any effect. So minimal minimal effect on that. It's it's a longer-acting insulin, it's designed to replace the background insulin that's present in your body all throughout the day and bring down your baseline glucose levels. It doesn't really have much of an impact when you when eating large boluses of carbohydrates. So you need a rapid insulin to deal with that.

SPEAKER_01 15:13

I see. Okay. Now, how much time before you take in that pre-workout meal before you hit the gym?

SPEAKER_00 15:19

I don't like an hour. I mean, it's just like you said, yeah, hour, hour and a half. I don't want I'm I'm you know, you were talking about it. I don't like feeling like that food's sitting heavy in my stomach when I'm lifting, man. Right, especially if I'm squatting or doing deadlifts or barbell rows, something like that, man.

SPEAKER_01 15:35

Yeah. You know, yeah, anything like that that kind of pushes down on your stomach. And what's funny is that I I still get it, it's still an uncomfortable feeling, even if I do do an hour, hour and a half before I've I've eaten and then hit the gym. So I can only imagine, of course, we've all made the mistakes where you eat and 20 minutes you're in the gym, but um it's still very uncomfortable during during that training period, especially when you're doing something like that really pushes down on the gut.

SPEAKER_00 16:06

Oh, yeah, yeah. You're you're gonna be puking. Yeah, burping it up. Yeah, and you know, and if especially if you're doing, you know, you think about it, um, if you're doing like really heavy, heavy activities like like leg training and stuff, all your blood supply is going to be going to your legs, your digestion is going to slow down during that period of time. A lot of times it'll end up making you sick. Okay. Um, but I I like easy to digest stuff. And as far as the simple carbohydrates, sometimes I'll just dump some barbecue sauce on my on my chicken. Just for the sugar, yeah. Yeah, just for the sugar to get get some sugar in pre-workout. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 16:44

Now, what's funny is that moving on to post-workout meals is a lot of people uh it seems to be common, whether it's inaccurate or not, it seems to be common that people take simple carbs right after the workout. So my like so my protein shake right after the workout is usually two scoops away isolate, uh scoop of carbolin, glutamine, creatine. And then an hour later I would have a meal.

SPEAKER_00 17:19

Go ahead. Yeah, I mean, there, you know, that you you hear about the workout window. There's some new studies out that say maybe it's not as not as uh necessary as we think it is. Um, but there is increased GLUT4 transport where your body's going to have an increased capacity to uh uptake glucose and amino acids when you're lifting weights. It's it's uh one, you know, you can force the issue with using insulin um uh as well. So, but yeah, I mean I think the big thing is is uh post-workout, you do need to get a bolus of carbohydrates, and you're going to be able to more aptly or your body's gonna have an increased capacity to synthesize uh glycogen post-workout. Your body's going to have more um um capacity to uptake amino acids because of that increased glute 4 transport. Like I said, we can force the issue with insulin, but that's sort of the idea of having those simple carbohydrates in post-workout. I don't know. I used to do the simple carbohydrates post-workout, but I don't do it anymore.

SPEAKER_02 18:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 18:23

Um, I never really found I don't I it to me it makes more sense to have them pre-an intra than it does um post-workout, but I do like to get a meal in within an hour or so post-workout. Um, I used to be one of the guys that would drink the dextrose and whey protein shake immediately post-workout, and I I don't do that anymore. Yeah, yes.

SPEAKER_01 18:45

Back in the day, I would do the orange Gatorade with a whey, or or back in the day it was metrics, remember?

SPEAKER_00 18:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:50

And it would taste all I so I'd get the protein and the carbs. I'd yeah, exactly. I would do the the same kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 18:56

Yeah, now we know it seems to be there's studies that indicate that the increased glute four transport can last up to three to four hours post-workout. Now, you do want to keep amino acids in present uh during that period of time. Uh, you are burning through glucose during your workout, so because you know it is lifting weights, tends to be uh you tends to tend to oxidize more glucose during, you know, you can't your body can use um fats and ketones, etc. But glucose is the is the preferred fuel source for muscle contraction. So there you're you are going to burn it up, but you know, you do need to replenish glycogen stores, and you'll hear but you see bodybuilders. I mean, you you know it, man. If you go in and hammer a bunch of carbohydrates the next day, you wake up fuller and you're gonna have better phones and all these other yeah, yeah, that goes without saying, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 19:48

So now the the philosophy of a shake right after and then a meal an hour later, which I've been doing forever. What's your take on that?

SPEAKER_00 19:56

Um, look, it's not gonna hurt anything if you want to do that. Um, it may or may not provide any additional benefit. Um, I stopped doing it just because my stomach is kind of a little rocky, a little dicey post-workout sometimes. And I I noticed that when I would do that shake with simple carbohydrates immediately when I got out of the gym, that it would upset my stomach.

SPEAKER_02 20:20

Right.

SPEAKER_00 20:21

Um, and I feel like that the intra workout shake with the amino acids in the high molecular weight carbohydrates are getting me that anyway. So there's not a desperate need to eat direct you know, have the slam that shake as soon as I won't get to my car post-workout. So a lot of times I'll just, you know, uh my intro workout, a lot of what I'm pushing really hard will probably be like 50 grams of carbs and 10 to 15 grams of amino acid. So that's enough to get to get me home, and then I can eat a solid meal when I get home. Um, but look, if you want to toss it in, it's not hurting anything. If you're using insulin, it may be necessary just to keep you from going hypo. Um you know, just just to be, you know, just to be safe. Um, I don't know how much how much of a how much of a difference it's it's it's making. I I I stopped doing that years ago. I I don't do it anymore. You know, okay. I haven't done it in quite some time.

SPEAKER_01 21:18

All right. I actually still do it. Um, because my attitude is uh if it's not broken, don't fix it.

SPEAKER_00 21:24

Yeah, work them for you. By all means do it. And and look, when we're trying to grow um more food, um is the right types of food, it's probably going to help. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:37

Now, my my meal after the shake, I still try to use a protein that breaks down easily, like you said, white fish, egg whites. Same deal. So is that's that's accurate.

SPEAKER_00 21:49

Yeah, I mean, I for the most part, and I think this is a problem that you see with a lot of bodybuilders, especially guys that are shoving a lot of food down. I think guys have figured this out. Now. The reason why a lot of dudes had the big guts wasn't so much the GH is that they were just they just had a lot of digestive issues from eating foods that didn't process well. And if we're power shoving food in an off-season setting and trying to get down calories, I I think we do need to prioritize foods that digest well, not just in the workout window, but throughout the day. And then because all that food's just sitting in your stomach.

SPEAKER_02 22:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:37

And then you're eating another meal when the meal before, to me, that never made any sense either. When you're eating another meal and the and the previous meal's still sitting in your stomach, I undigested, that that can't be productive.

SPEAKER_01 22:49

Right. Yes. Okay. I'm actually glad you brought that up because that was my biggest mistake when I was competing 10 or 12 years ago. I would try to shovel so much food down that I knew my previous meal wasn't digested, and the food would be up to here and it'd be very uncomfortable. And I learned the hard way that you really have to slowly build up to that caloric intake that you want to take in and not just starting down a bunch of food. It it's it's uncomfortable. And like you said, I don't think it's very productive.

SPEAKER_00 23:20

Yeah, and a lot of a lot of foods that guys, I mean, you can look it up if you want, but there's the I I have my clients run a low FODMAP foods. Um, FODMAP foods are foods that tend to cause gut irritation, bloating, indigestion. But a lot of common bodybuilder foods, stuff that bodybuilders pound, you know, an example would be broccoli, asparagus, things like that, tend tend to slow down digestion and cause bloating. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:47

Um and what's funny, it's funny that you said that is because the greens that I choose to take in now are everything that does not cause bloating. So I'll I'll choose string beans over broccoli. Yep. I'll choose uh, you know, different types of lettuces, uh, romaine lettuce, um, uh spinach, things like that. Spinach, exactly. Everything that wouldn't cause um, because I would use uh early on, just like anybody else, you know, you you always use broccoli, cauliflower, and it just killed just killed my stomach.

SPEAKER_00 24:17

Literally, broccoli and cauliflower are probably the two worst things for digestion that you can use. I mean, that and it's funny because that's was the old old school bodybuilding uh protocols broccoli, chicken, or beef, eating beef, broccoli, and rice. And I remember guys would would pound a lot of brown rice too, and you end up with too way too much fiber. Um, they used to yeah, I remember that was another old school thing that the guys have gotten away from doing. Now, it's not to say you don't need fiber, but what I like to do kind of a hack during the day to so you're processing food. I basically eat like a baby during the day, man. Bananas, rice, chicken, white fish, and then to get my fiber in, uh at the night at night, I'll take a fiber supplement to get the fiber in.

SPEAKER_01 25:03

That's exactly what I do.

SPEAKER_00 25:05

And then that pushes all the things through overnight.

SPEAKER_01 25:07

That's exactly what I just did it, actually. I just so actually, now that you said that, I could plug Jay's uh fiber. He has a new fiber, it's excellent. I use it. You go on iPorve Sups, it's uh it's actually a great fiber. Before that, I was using um fibrolized by species. Um, either one of them is really good. Uh, but Jay's, I think he puts a little bit more time and effort into developing his his fiber supplement. But now, okay, there has to be some benefit of taking in red meat from time to time. Obviously, it's not like 20 years ago where you know you were shoveling cheeseburgers in like everybody thought they would, and you know, and and steak and whatnot. The big double diet. Yeah, it was it was bad. And you know, uh, everybody, everybody watched that video that Dave Palumbo did with Jim Palecchio, remember? And um, um, and they would just go and they would just eat cheeseburgers, and I mean I was guilty of it, but there has to be some benefit from eating you know red meat from time to time.

SPEAKER_00 26:06

Yeah, I mean, red meat does seem to have the most complete and balanced amino acid profile. Uh, red meat is the most abundant natural source of creatine. So if you're eating red meat, you probably don't need to be taking creatine. Um, the issue that we run into with overdoing red meat is I I do one serving per day myself. Um, a couple things with red meat that we do have to be concerned about is getting the saturated fat intake a little too high and watching lipids while we're on PEDs. Right. Um, another another problem with red meat that we run into when we overdo it, if you're eating it for every meal, when you're especially when you're taking PEDs, is all the iron intake, and you end up with high red blood cell count, hemoglobin, and hematica because you're overdoing the iron intake. Um, so that that's another concern. Um, but I like to mix my protein sources. I I I rotate, but I have one serving of red meat per day. I usually do it at night before I go to bed. So I have a slower digesting protein overnight. Um, the rest of the day I'll usually do chicken, white fish, shrimp. I'll even do some salmon here and there, egg whites, if you can tolerate them. Sometimes egg whites cause um cause uh cause problems. But I try to diversify my protein sources, just but I'm mainly prioritizing stuff that digest easily. I think it's another thing, like like, and this was a knucklehead approach that I did when I was younger. I would just keep eating shit that's making me fart and bloated, man.

SPEAKER_01 27:41

Like it was so uncomfortable, man. It was it was so bad. And what was so funny, we I think we talked about this before, is when I was very young, and I would I was in I was in love with bodybuilding in my late teens and early 20s, and I used to see these guys with huge stomachs, you know, the Craig Titus's and Ronnie Coleman's and even Lee Priest. And I would want that huge stomach because I want there to be a bodybuilder like that, you know? And then uh it turned out to be not a good idea. Now, um let's say now you're competing, uh, you want to do a contest, uh, and you're obviously looking to, you know, uh lose some weight uh because you want to get leaner for the contest. How does that change your pre and post-workout diet?

SPEAKER_00 28:31

I usually don't touch my pre and post-workout meals. I leave the carbs in my pre and post-workout meals and I yank them elsewhere because I want to keep uh I want to keep gem performance high, right? Um, that's my last, absolute last place I'm gonna yank carbohydrates from. I'll yank it from my other meals. You know, let's say if I'm eating six meals a day, I'll, you know, if I really need to pull some fat off and increase fat burning, I'll go zero carb on my other meals if I have to. But my pre and post and intra workout meals, I do not touch those because I think it it's the impact that it's going to have on your performance in the gym, uh, the impact that it's going to have on flattening yourself out. Um, the problem I see with, especially with a lot of younger competitors, is they, or just people dieting in general, is they overdo pulling the carbs out, um, and they end up just pancaking themselves. They end up looking like like you know, super flat. I'd rather pull some fats out personally, um, than than do that. Now, I you know that you do need a certain amount of fats in your diet. There is a certain amount of EFAs that you need um for you know for basic functions such as vitamin uptake and cellular repair and etc. etc. Endothelial function, brain health, and stuff. But you really don't need a ton of ton of fats. But for me, the single most performance-enhancing macronutrient that we have when we're lifting weights is is getting some carbs in.

SPEAKER_01 30:06

So now, how how long before you would actually pull those carbs before a contest? You you keep it in your pre- and post-workout meals. Do you ever pull it out before a contest? Or it depends on the on the individual.

SPEAKER_00 30:22

It really depends on the individual, but a lot of times that last week going into the show, I'm actually putting food back in. I like filling guys out, I like having them ready. I like having them lean before the show, but usually the last week or two weeks. And I also cycle carbohydrate intake as well.

SPEAKER_01 30:39

I've done that in the past, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:40

Yeah, I do I do carb cycling diets with my clients. So I will take one day a week where we push the carbs, even in a dieting phase where I push the carbohydrates really high to replenish glycogen.

SPEAKER_01 30:50

Um, to even if you have the carbs within the pre and post-workout meals. Yep. So I wish you could train me back in the day, the my last contest, what I did, because I was trained by such an old school guy that it was literally like uh tuna and string beans, and you know, and and and and die if you have to.

SPEAKER_00 31:14

Yeah, I mean, look, there are times where that's necessary, but the way I look at it, if if you didn't get super fat in your offseason, you shouldn't have to go to those extremes, right?

SPEAKER_01 31:24

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but he was he was it was Nick, it was Guy Del Corso, and you want to talk about old school, you know, you talk about he he passed away and he was in his 70s when he passed away a couple of years ago, but he was trained, he was competing since the 70s, and that was his that was his, you know, you had to suffer, period. End of story. That was it. If you went to him, that that's he was gonna he was gonna destroy you um to make sure you came and shredded in the fucking in the contest, and then like three days before he would cob you up, but then he would cut your water. Um, but I think that was the old school style.

SPEAKER_00 32:03

That was the old school style. But let me ask you, when do you look your best? A week a week after your show, right?

SPEAKER_01 32:10

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 32:12

Right, yeah, right. It's it's it's you know, so why not duplicate that going into your show?

SPEAKER_01 32:18

Yeah, you know what's funny? It's it what's so funny that you said that. Lee Priest has been saying that forever. Like he's been saying, don't do anything stupid the week before the show, right? I just have to give a quick shout out, Adam. Uh, thank you, man. I appreciate that, Adam. I I you you always tip, you don't have to, brother. It but thank you very much. It is greatly appreciated that uh that you tip uh uh during the shows, man. So thank you very much, brother. It says uh got here late, we'll have to rewatch, uh but thanks for the show as always. Of course, Adam, at any time, you can hit me up on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, you can email me. But uh I appreciate the tip, man. Thank you very much. Um so it's amazing how what was funny too is that with the exception of the of the red meat all the time, during the I would say the you know late 80s into the early 90s, maybe yeah, the early into mid-90s, everything was basically chicken and rice, chicken and rice, chicken and rice. And then it seemed shifted to get rid of the carbs and you gotta do this keto diet, and it was protein fats, protein fats, protein fats. Right and Palumbo was a big proponent of that because that used to work for him. And I remember the first contest I did, I was 23, and all I was eating was chicken and nuts. That was it. I used to come in shape, but maybe that's why I was smaller than everybody else, you know.

SPEAKER_00 33:52

Yeah, I mean, I you know, you look at most of the top pros now. Now, you could argue the conditioning's not what it was in the 90s. Um, I certainly could see that argument, but most of the guys now have figured out that some sort of caloric cycling is the way to go. I think people have a better understanding of physiology and how um macronutrient partitioning happens in the body. So, for example, like with what I'm talking about, like having a carbloading day once per week, you can, if you keep the fats low, and we understand if we just kind of peel back and think about how the body partitions energy, you can go in a caloric surplus one day a week and not store body fat. And that I think that makes people's heads explode when they think about it. Like, how the fuck am I doing that? But it's how your body partitions energy. Your body has a pretty large capacity for storing glycogen. And when you hear dudes talk about being flat on stage, that's essentially what they're talking about. It's your body. You you a big dude can be seven, eight, ten pounds different from from glycogen storage, right? I mean, it's if you you're a large man and you can store a thousand grams of carbs as a as um as muscle glycogen, there's four parts of that is going to be water. So you're gonna have another four thousand grams of water. So that's five kilograms, that's 10, that's 11 pounds, man, of glycogen that you're carrying, and all that's inside your muscle. I mean, uh, how do you think you're gonna look with with that additional weight on stage?

SPEAKER_02 35:28

Right.

SPEAKER_00 35:29

But if we do things correctly, you can actually eat in a caloric surplus that one day per week if you keep the fats low, because your body's going to prioritize those carbohydrates before synthesizing glycogen. And then you you can also reset your metabolism a bit too, so you prevent that metabolic downregulation that happens when your diet or your metabolism just gets slower and you have to do more cardio and you have to uh you have to eat less food and all these other bad things that happen when you just eat less and less food and starve yourself. Right. And I think people, most pros now and most of the modern coaches have figured that out and do some variation of that, even if guys are doing no carbs the rest of the day, they're usually doing some sort of refeed day once per week, reasonable refeed day.

SPEAKER_01 36:15

Right, right, right, right. When I had did the carbohydrate um, because I've noticed I would start the uh the carb carb rotating, I think, three weeks out, and it it it obviously worked for me. Um if you go back in the picture I use on my thumbnail for Anabolic Academy was the last contest I did, which was probably the best I ever looked. I mean, for me, obviously. I was never an elite bodybuilder. Um it would be two days, uh it would literally be two days chicken and vegetables, two days chicken and rice, two days chicken and fats, chicken and nuts, and then I would do it all over again. And that was the the carb cycling that I would do, which seemed to work.

SPEAKER_00 36:59

Yeah, that's similar to how I'll do it. I'll take like maybe two days a week and go zero carbs.

SPEAKER_01 37:05

Okay, yeah, okay, right, okay. That makes sense, obviously. All right. Now, when you say zero carbs, do you mean take out the the the greens as well?

SPEAKER_00 37:13

No, I'll leave greens in. I mean, they're just fiber. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean your body yeah, think about what insoluble fiber is that you're just gonna shit it out. It doesn't actually do anything. It's it's that's how that's how like these some of these protein bars and stuff will say zero net carbs because they're just full of fiber or or or carbohydrates like sugar alcohols that can't be absorbed, but uh things like that.

SPEAKER_01 37:40

All right. Last question, then I'm gonna let you go. You put a post up on your um on your uh Instagram, and I agree with you, but I do indulge in protein bars from time to time.

SPEAKER_00 37:55

Oh, I do too, man. Who doesn't?

SPEAKER_01 37:56

Yeah, but especially during my like off season, especially when I I'm not really too I don't my diet's really not that clean. Well my diet is clean, like right now. My diet's very clean. I get rid of pro protein bars immediately because I was al I always believed the same thing that I didn't think it that it was a substantial form of protein, I thought it would be a cheap uh cheap form of protein. And it seems to be just like a lot, a lot of chocolate and caramel and things like that that just aren't uh supportive for a bodybuilder's diet. What you what because explain what your your take on it was it when you put it up on Instagram?

SPEAKER_00 38:32

I was kind of shocked. I well, I've seen a lot of people talk about protein bars recently. I guess there's been some controversy over some protein bars. I don't say that up on what's going on on social media, to be honest with you, but I was just shocked to see that you know, and I've been talking to people that that are eating them daily, sometimes multiple times a daily daily, as part of their regular diet. And look, I I I love the met what is it, metrics apple crisp one.

SPEAKER_01 39:00

I I oh god, yes, it's really a big candy bar though.

SPEAKER_00 39:05

I mean yeah, it's like it's like a fucking candy bar. But when you look look at it, man, they're they're a highly processed food stuff, right? They they use all sorts of chemicals, and you know, there are some that are better and others, but at the end of the day, it's a treat, right? Yeah, you you're you're always gonna be better off just eating chicken and rice or beef and rice, and and you're gonna have a better result. And I think if you're serious about bodybuilding and serious about physique enhancement, you're always going to be better off eating real food, it's just that simple.

SPEAKER_01 39:35

Yeah, I think I I think what happens is the majority of the people that want to go to the gym and and train and aren't super advanced, they just get lazy and they don't want to food prep. So, like, I'll just stop at 7-Eleven, I'll stop at the vitamin shop, I'll get a couple of protein bars, I'll be fine. You know what I mean, instead of actually meal prepping. That that seems to be the uh the guys that take in a lot of protein bars, that seems to be the philosophy behind it. I don't think they realize um that to do more damage than good doing that.

SPEAKER_00 40:02

Well, when you think like there's stuff in there that's really gonna fuck your digestion up. A lot of them have sugar alcohols in them, some of them have these pseudo fats now that aren't absorbed, that you your body can't fully absorb, but they taste like fat. Uh they have usually whatever protein that they're using in is the cheapest, shittiest form of of whey, uh whey concentrate that you can get. And then you you end up with the bubble guts after you're parting and upset stomach from eating it, you know. You know, I don't to to me, monsters and protein bars aren't a bodybuilding diet.

SPEAKER_01 40:38

Oh my god, yeah, yeah. And you know what? You know, we're all guilty of it, but you're a hundred percent look, I dude, I do it.

SPEAKER_00 40:44

I'm guilty of it too, man.

SPEAKER_01 40:45

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sometimes in the morning I'm in a rush, I grab a sugar-free monster, but you're a hundred percent right, man. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 40:52

And look, you know, and I I was, you know, I had some dude that was very angry. I guess I must have uh called out his diet, and I'm and he was like, he's like, he's like, you know, I'm on the road, and I'm like, bro, you can go into any gas station in America and get a yogurt, uh, uh, a hard-boiled egg, and and a banana. I mean, that's that takes just as long to eat as the protein bar. You just you just like eating protein bars, man.

SPEAKER_01 41:15

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, it's uh it's it's I guess it's difficult when people are set in their ways to hear that hey, what you're doing is is not uh uh not as as substantial as what you could be doing.

SPEAKER_00 41:26

And uh I mean it's the same thing with protein shakes. There are there are some higher quality protein shakes, but but a lot of them are shitty, man.

SPEAKER_01 41:34

You know, and and oh you can go by the price. You can go by the price. Yep, if you're getting a tub of protein is twenty dollars, there's a problem.

SPEAKER_00 41:44

Look, here's my thing, man. If it's making you fart, yeah, and and you're gassing your girlfriend out of the room, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, what what that what what does that tell you? Your body's not absorbing it, man. It's fermenting in your gut, man.

SPEAKER_01 41:58

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 41:59

You know, so it's not it's not like you're doing anything with it, but you know, look, at the end of the day, once in a while is fine. It's it's just look at it as a treat, man. It's something you do.

SPEAKER_01 42:08

You know, Milos has a nickname, the mind, right? They call him the mind. I think we should call you the brain, the brain, man, because you are a wealth of bodybuilding knowledge. And as far as I'm concerned, you should be on there with uh Milos and Dave Palumbo debating because uh you really, really every time I have you on, I learn more and more stuff.

SPEAKER_00 42:29

Well, thank you. I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_01 42:32

Listen, uh, Paul, thank you for coming on, man. It's always a pleasure. And what I said at the beginning is the gods on the truth. It means it means the world to me that you're my friend now and that you come on when I need you to come on. Um, it really does. And if there's anything I can do for you, you could just hit me up, man, because it means a lot. It really does. Awesome, dude. Appreciate you. Paul, have a good weekend, man. I'll I'll text you over the weekend. Thank you, sir.

SPEAKER_00 42:56

All right, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 42:57

All right, later.